script against RSI

ultimeci

New Member
I have tried to discuss this ingame with Marine, with whom i apparently cannot hold a decent conversation. I've tried to be respectful, I brought up multiple arguments, amongst which a post in a thread he linked to me and my real life health, and all he claims "it's the rules" but refusing to 1. tell me which rule and where it's written and 2. note the fact mods are very lenient in what they do or do not punish when people don't follow the rules.

I have had RSI in the past. With my study as a sign language interpreter I am prone to it coming back. That means that, amongst others, I have to avoid to keep clicking the mouse button. As you all know, using a grinder means you have to click that same mouse button to kill the mobs, to get the XP. That's also exactly where my problem comes in. I cannot get the XP with the RSI, as clicking the button does pose a serious health risk for me. I already use an adjusted keyboard and mouse, to avoid most of the risk but clicking the button is just not an option for me.

So I have a solution which does work wonders for me. I have a macro that I can just hold the side button down of my mouse, which gives multiple clicks as long as I hold that button down. That works just fine, and also avoids almost all the risk of RSI returning.

I understand that _automating_ player action is not ok, and the way that I see this is that I'm not automating. I don't press a button and a series of actions happen. What happens is that the holding down of a button is turned into clicking of another.


I understand that Marine doesn't agree with me. He apparently also doesn't like me asking for someone else's opinion. I do think that's quite odd, since if he's right in the way he sees this whole situation me asking for a second opinion shouldn't cause any issues.

In regards to Marine's statement that "rules are rules", I suggest you start handing out warnings to a lot more people then. If they are so clear then you should have no problem in applying them, along with the other mods. Amongst the most annoying exceptions that's currently being made is Liddiemac. The constant amount of caps, annoyance and screaming has violated the rules more than once, however she's still not banned. That does make me wonder: why?

I'm fine with others replying to this thread. However, I do ask that you reply with some form of content. Just an "I agree" is not helpful here, so please don't. I also ask that all replies are respectful towards another, even if you might not disagree with them.
 

DrMadFellow

I'm out, come find me elsewhere.
I can make this topic real short.

1. Macros only break rules when used to avoid actually playing, or exploit some flaw in minecraft. You are doing neither.
2. There is no difference between making each click and using your macro so long as you are actively at your computer involved in what is happening on the screen.

I use macros to manage item sorting among other things in my client and I will continue to do so because nothing I am doing is cheating or affecting other players. So long as you have told the truth (and I will wait for Marine to tell his side of the story), there is no reason you cannot continue to use your macro as you see fit. Again you are not cheating (you cant outclick NCP), and you are not affecting other players, therfore.... no problem that I can see.
 

Marine05

Server Moderator
Ok... so this discussion wasn't about medical issues, and was strictly about the rules. What we had decided before on this topic was that macros that control player actions or movements were not allowed. If your macro was set as every time you depress the 'G' key it will act as if you clicked the mouse button once, that is fine. On the other hand, having a macro set that while you depress a certain key, sends a chain command of click unclick click unclick for as long as you have it depressed for whatever speed was NOT allowed. Such macros could be used as an advantage in pvp and even just in grinders. Im not sure where Dr's interpretation falls into this, as before it was decided fast clicking macros were not allowed.. and should not be allowed..

Please remain respectful, and do not twist what I had said in game. I hadnt said rules were rules in any regards to this debate.

**quick edit** about the medical issue, I would suggest not to spend as much time grinding mobs. It isn't really necessary for game play, and if you need a bunch of exp for tools, you can ask around and I'm sure people would be willing to trade for items you can get without being in pain or aggravating a condition.
 

DrMadFellow

I'm out, come find me elsewhere.
NCP literally wont allow you to click faster than whatever it's default setting is. In this case there is a valid medical reason he needs an autoclicker, and he is still physically playing so I do not see an issue. I will let the other admins weigh in on that though.
 

Marine05

Server Moderator
Ah yea, I know it stops from clicking faster than what the setting is, but still can be used in other situations to get an upperhand on other players, and further complicates our rules, not to mention spamming moderators with click errors.
But again, I was trying to leave the medical issue out, and just focus on the basic rules. medical issues do mix it up though and are something I didnt want to get into, being that we'd have to allow everyone to spam us with ncp errors by openly allowing it, or go case by case asking for people to prove a medical need (wont happen, its not our business)... Its not the right thing to do, and not something I wanted to even get into.

Id like to ask others weighing in to ignore the medical side of this and focus on the main rules for now. Afterwards we can come back for medical issues.
 

sk37ch

New Member
Does this macro force you to depress a button, and keep it depressed, similar to a mouse click? If so, which I doubt it does, then I see no benefit to the user of said macro. However, if you press a button once to active a constant "Left Click" of the mouse, then yes I would agree this is extremely advantageous to the end user and unfair to those who are forced to hold down a mouse button.

My opinion is without consideration for any disabilities, handicaps, or attempts to avoid injury.
 

SgtSpike

Site Admin & Server Owner
Staff member
My main concerns are:

1) Cheating for BTC
2) Cheating to gain an advantage in PvP (especially combat)

Since macros generally give an advantage in one or both of those areas, we haven't allowed them at all. If it can be reasonably demonstrated that a macro doesn't provide any advantages in either area, and it doesn't significantly alter gameplay, I don't see any reason it cannot be allowed.
 

ultimeci

New Member
SgtSpike,

Thank you for replying. I can guarantee you it does not alter gameplay and I completely understand the points you've made.
1) I don't use it for mining. It's slower and has no use while mining, since just holding the button down does the same thing but better. Add to that, that a beacon+eff5 just melts stone like a hot knife through butter and it's safe to say there's no use for this macro while mining. Since that's the only thing we can get BTC for, there's no advantage in this.
2) Once struck everything has a small invulnerability period. Not long, but it's there, so the faster hitting things has no additional benefit other than wearing down whatever I'm using, therefor not giving me a benefit but instead giving me a disadvantage. I don't PvP, so that's not even important to me at all but I understand you bringing it up.

In order to this I'd use Autohotkey. I already use it for a lot of macro's and scripts. I'm more than willing to let a mod read the script I'd be using, and if they feel the need to check up on me more because "I might be getting a benefit" then they should do so by all means. I really don't see what sort of advantage this'd provide me, other than reducing the risk of RSI for me.

In response to sk37ch, the macro requires me to keep a button depressed instead of continuously pressing and letting go. I understand that it's not allowed to use a switch, since that'd defeat the purpose of me playing. This can easily be checked by a mod by asking for some user interaction (such as talking).
 

Katherine_a

possibly a really convincing bot
ult, what I I do if I'm bashing away at a grinder for a while is map my attack to an unused key (like B, for example). I have multiple kinds of Hurty Hand Problem, and I find that's way easier on me than anything involving the mouse.

Not saying I personally think the macro is a bad thing, but just sharing my clicking-workaround :)
 

Artemia

New Member
I found this thread while googling for ways to continue to play Minecraft with RSI. I'm a programmer, so I spend the majority of my day on a computer, and I have developed RSI and now struggle to either repeatedly click or hold a button down for any length of time. And I'm conscious that whenever I try to, its damaging my hands and making it harder for me to do my work.

I only play offline, so your server rules don't apply to me, but the only way I can really do anything on Minecraft is by mapping hold-click and repeat-click to keys that toggle them on and off.

I get the arguments for not allowing this, but you have to understand there are people who literally can't play without doing this kind of thing. Like I said, I don't play this server, and I don't actually have a solution, but it would be nice if people could have a bit of a think about what to do about people like me other than just not playing :).
 
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